Hi Helene

The reality is nobody knows for sure

I have just sent an email to the Chief Director asking for clarification
Watch this space

It wouldn't do any harm to alert any call you are not sure about

Its hard to envisage a situation where the other side are damaged by an alert when one was not required

cheers
Nick

Instant reply from Murray Wiggins by email

3C Stayman over 2NT is alerted

2C Simple Stayman over 1NT is not

Hi Helene

I'm not a director, but...

In a tournament context the answer seems to be in the self-alerting calls set out on page D59 of the NZBridge Manual.

That instructs us that the following is deemed “self-alerting” and should not be alerted:  "...simple Stayman 2♣ responses to 1NT opening bids and the 2♦ response denying a 4-card major (alert all other uses including a natural 2♣ and responses). Stayman after an opponent’s double should be alerted."

Hence, a 3C response to a 2NT bid (that is a variant of Stayman, simple or not) is not covered by the exemption, and needs an alert.

By the way, to my mind "Stayman" is a repsonse to a 1NT bid.  If used over 2NT it is something else, I'd not call that Stayman, perhaps a "Stayman-style major suit ask" or something like that.

And yes to the unspoken question:  if you alert 3C you would also need to alert the 3D (I have no 4+M) response.

Regards

Scott Smith

Hello to all, I have read the replies carefully...and I must say, specially to Murray, that I am confused here:  I have been reading this book written by Ron Klinger in 1989, who I believe is an authority on Acol , titled "Bridge For Children".

when I got near the end of it, there was a chapter on "Summary of The Acol System p.86 and  I quote: "  Responses to 1NT opening:

2C is the Stayman Convention (see Chapter 16 , page 90) 

and then :

Responses to 2NT Openings: 3C is the Stayman Convention (see same chapter 16...) Other suits at the 3 Level  are forcing to game and show at least a 5Card suit."

So I went to Chapter 16, p.90 : Chapter on "Stayman Convention"  he talks about the the 1NT and 2NT openings...and mentions  that the solution is The Stayman Convention, a 2C response to 1NT and a 3C response to 2NT each of which is a question to opener: "DO you hold a 4Card Major?...."

So...where did NZB decide that 3C over 2NT opening is not  Stayman ?

I also looked at ACBL...(SAYC) and 2C and 3C are Stayman convention, not alertable...anything else would be...

I look forward to someone getting me "unconfused"

Cheers

Helene

East Coast Bays Bridge CLub.

 .

Hi Helen

A bit late with a reply here, have been overseas.

My take on alerting 3C over 2NT is that it is not always Stayman. Some of the older members of our club used to use the convention Baron. That is 3C is asking for all of partners 4 card suits, bidding up the line. Therefore 3D says partner has 4D but does not deny 4H/S

Cheers

Neil

Hello again, It is my strong belief that we should be "constant"...if 2C over  1NT  (12-14) opening showing a "weak take out" is alertable as per NZ Manual, and Stayman is not....by reference, 3C over 2NT (20-22 bal) should be "alerted" if it is NOT Stayman.Hence 3C meaning anything else should be alertable.  I strongly urge the Manual to be updated...with that in mind.

I also believe that players that play complicated conventions over 2NT openings...would most likely be playing Standard American...and in that system, 3C Stayman is NOT alertable either.

CHeers

Helene