Opening Lead - Card Detached
Hello there
What Law number covers this please?
Thanks
Peter
"On the initial opening lead, a card is deemed to be played as soon as the leader begins to detach a card from their hand, whether or not the card’s face was exposed whether partner could have seen the card or even fully detached from the remaining 12 cards.
The rule makers feel strongly that once the opening leader begins to detach a card from their hand, changing the card would provide too much unauthorized information to partner. I suppose that since it would be impossible for the Director or anyone to determine how to restore equity in that situation, the Law was written rather strongly"
Latest Posts on this Thread
- HELENE LABRECHE21 Oct 2017 at 11:08AM
Hi Peter, I cannot find which Law you are referring to here...I looked at 16 and 45...would you please let me know? tks
Helene
- PETER BOWYER22 Oct 2017 at 04:22PM
Someone (who will remain nameless!) insisted that this was a law and sent me the quoted text from the internet...
I too, couldn't find any reference to it - hence my qury to the forum.
I do understand Law 45 (which I think is clear and concise and does not cover this)
Allan Joseph - can you enlighten please?
All best
Peter - HELENE LABRECHE22 Oct 2017 at 07:10PM
HI Peter, I even went directily to the website where we have a link to the new laws and the changes etc...and used a search word(s) engin to try and find that precise sentencce...and did not come up with anything...and the laws are from WBF which is , if I am not mistaken, the book of law for the whole world of bridge...and so I did some reseach on the web and this is the link to the answer:
https://www.bridgehands.com/bridgeblog/?p=945
As I understand it...it was a "response" to a poll to find out what players knew about "when is a card played ?'' if you read on to what is the Yellow Highlight...it does come back to the actual laws as is now...so this answer is "fictitious.".....
Hope that answers the question better.
Cheers
Helene
- 26 Oct 2017 at 05:17PM
I tried a google search for the actual quote. The only hit I could find quickly that matched the quote above was a part of a debate on a site called www.bridgehands.com (I found it here: https://www.bridgehands.com/bridgeblog/?p=945 )
I don't think even that suggested it was actually the rule.
Ah the internet age eh.
- Dougal WATSON22 Apr 2018 at 04:58PM
Again, I am not a Director but am trying to get some study ‘mileage’ out of these questions. Totally inviting corrections as necessary, but am absolutely not gonna let my ignorance stop me trying to work out an answer ????
An opening lead is the card led to the first trick. A lead is the first card played to a trick. The definition of play includes “the contribution of a card from one’s hand to a trick, including the first card, which is the lead”.
Those definitions seem mostly useful in that they suggest that to have led a card you need to have played that card.
Law 41A states that “the defender on presumed declarer’s left makes the opening lead face down” but also defers to the possibility of local Regulating Authorities specifying that it be made face-up.
Law 45A states that “Each player except dummy plays a card by detaching it from his hand and facing it on the table immediately before him” and also defers to the possibility of “The opening lead is first made face down unless the Regulating Authority directs otherwise”.
Law 45C2 deems a declarer’s card to have been played if it is held face up, touching or nearly touching the table or maintained is such a position as to indicate that it has been played (Yeah, I know).
Law 74B states that, as a matter of etiquette, a player should refrain from “detaching a card before it is his turn to play”.
I cannot find any specifics in either the NZ or ACBL manuals.
So, throwing all that together I’d be inclined to see detaching a card as not constituting a lead, but simply a necessary precursor to a lead. The lead itself is the full sequence of the player detaching the card and tabling it face down in the case of an opening lead (subject to the 45C2 deemings), or facing it in the case of another lead. The lead is not over until the card has been placed on the table (Law 45A).
Detaching a card and not leading it seems to be a matter of poor etiquette, more amenable to public flogging than Director rectification IMHO.
Have I missed or misrepresented anything important?
You need to be logged in to reply to threads.
Click here to log in.
Click here to log in.
